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从金刚经出发
王皆的手非常有力，艺术家的手，跟农民的一样朴实。
HIHEY艺术中心地方宽敞，空间高挑，王皆用《金刚经》印出来的人物作品，像一面面国旗似的挂在四壁。他说，找到一个合适的地方着实不易，大有“要生孩子找不到产房的感觉”。
作品有四组，分别是“奥巴马时代”的国际政要 2012年网络红人 商界大佬，以及在当代中国历史上意义重大的领导人。王皆说，他之所以印这些人，是因为他们在自己脑子里挥之不去，时代的影像挤压着我们，让我们不得不去注意，眼下媒体的关注可以创造出虚幻的意义。
如今的中国，与王皆1989年刚上大学时的中国已大相径庭。那会儿艺术领域正在发生巨大变革，创作从集体回归到个人表述、与此同时，年轻人崇尚摇滚，有钱没钱都一样，有共同兴趣的就是朋友。“实验性”是那时很好的概括，不像现在，都是做好的蛋糕，让人无从下手。
“从金刚经出发”是王皆正在撰写的一本书的名字。如果不是他说，很难想象这样一个用《金刚经》文本进行艺术创作的人，在此之前都是没有信仰的。《金刚经》给了王皆一个机会去发现内心，关注直觉，从金刚经出发，艺术家找到了他最自然的状态。
青年时讯：这是怎样的一部作品？
王皆：这完全是一种个人记录，它的方式独特一点，我首先用青田石刻了一部《金刚经》，这部分作为装置艺术展出过，后来开始用《金刚经》作画。画作所表现的东西，是传媒时代我的接触，我每天打开电视，或者看报纸，有形形色色的政治人物、领导人是挥之不去的，于是就把它记录了下来，这些都是常见的公众人物，中国老百姓都知道，同时也是那一年在共同平台上被我注意到的人，我印他们，是去表述对对这个年代的感觉，并没有想站在一个什么立场上。
青时讯年：为什么选择《金刚经》来印这些人？
王皆：《金刚经》一共有5160个字，是个非常有意思的佛教文本，它很难，讲的是“无相”，意思就是，我们看到的这个世界、我们看到的这些事物是否是真实的，如果一个事物不是真实的时候，我们是否能放下。我的作品也是这样，我们看到了这些政治人物，他的意义是什么，对我来说真的不是最重要的，我只是把他们印出来。
青年时讯：用印章作画，颜色深浅的变化是怎么实现的？
王皆：这种方式是我琢磨了一年多发明的一种个人技术，深浅是要在印的过程中自己来把握，这对印泥的品质要求非常高，附着力要强。以前我画油画，做这个作品的时候就想用章子作画是不是可能，之后花了一年时间慢慢摸索，最终掌握了这种方法。
青年时讯：政治人物印的那么清晰，而经济人物就很虚幻，是有意为之的吗？
王皆：很多人问我，《金刚经》和这些有什么关系，我把经济人物印的比较模糊，是有意切断他们与《金刚经》的联系，但政治人物都印的比较清楚，是可以顺着经文念下来的，有一种期盼在里面，希望他们对这个世界有些贡献和意义。
青年时讯：听说您有一本康熙抄录的《金刚经》，刻的时候是选用了上面的字体吗？
王皆：这个不是。可长的字库从最早的甲骨文到中国字形完全成熟时期汉篆，这一阶段里的书体在我作品里都有。研究汉子其实非常有意思，就像汉子里的“人”，原先的形态就是微微颔首，一副谦和的样子，表现出一种敬畏。
青年时讯：创作一幅作品大概需要多长时间？
王皆：“奥巴马时代”花了一年零十个月，一幅作品大概需要用2000多个章子，每幅画用的时间不一定，如果一段时间没有其他事情的干扰，大概一个月就做出来了。做卡扎菲的时候就比较煎熬，首先我不知道到底该不该做他（笑），做完以后有感觉不像，当时想重做一张，后来想了想，大概就是我心里那个卡扎菲的形象吧。
青年时讯：在国外展出的时候，外国观众怎么看这些中国视野里的政要形象和热点人物？
王皆：对于我的作品，很多外国艺术家问我，为社么要选择卡扎菲，或者金正日，对他们而言，这些都是邪恶国家的领导。我告诉他们，这是你的判断，但对我来说，邪恶和正义，在政治话语中没什么区别。国外的观众非常有意思，不像中国的老百姓，他们不社会事件参与度非常高，特别是西方国家，公民意识很强，他们在看待公共人物的时候，会将其与自己的社会立场放在一起。
青年时讯： 您更愿意以个人视角记录时代，而不是对它做出评价。
王皆：对。其实有一个本质聊‘表述”,表述两个字涵盖的内容非常宽，你画面体现的东西，都是你要表述的内容，同时在表述下出现一种美学意义，这种美学意义要符合它所在那个时代的文化思潮。西方古典时期画人物有意大利的洛可可，体现出文艺复兴的时代特点；中国1980年代的伤痕美术，表述的是那一时期中国文化苏醒以后年轻人的期盼；而我做这个东西，是社会进入媒体时代以后的情况，个体已经完全被图像、声音挤压的人都找不到不见了，在这样一个时代里又能做什么呢？我选择了记录，所以就印了这个时代大家都知道的这些事。
青年时讯：从刻《金刚经》到用《金刚经》来作画，您的作品体现出非常多元化的特征。创作过程中的每一个阶段，您的感受一定也不一样。
王皆：对，不一样。刻章是个体力活，挺累，刻了两年。之前从来没有刻过，这个属于突发奇想。有一段时间因为没有找到有意思的表述方式，整个人比较焦躁，于是开始尝试读《金刚经》。那个时代挺好玩，各种思潮都有，很多人都学禅，我自己也看一点。因为《金刚经》是禅宗一个重要的经典，禅宗到中国以前，咱们国家读的不是《金刚经》，而是《楞伽经》，这本书非常厚，而《金刚经》非常短。刚开始阅读的时候，我觉得《金刚经》挺难的，查了很多文献，发现其实佛教是一个知识体系，有“知”，有“行”。“知”就是要去学习佛教不断发展的经典文本，同时要去实践文本所传授的方法，就是 ”行“。佛教能让人看到希望，不管你当时的境况如何，你的环境如何，当你通过学习佛教理论再去做一些实践的时候，你的内心会非常安静，会开始有信仰。
青年时讯：在这之前您没有信仰？
王皆：完全没有。烧香拜佛在我看来已经远离了佛教的本质，佛教本身的东西就是三个字”戒、定、慧”，首先你要控制自己的行为，然后你能安定下来，你在安定的时候去思考，这种思考是非常合理的，认识到这点是我读《金刚经》最重要的一个收获。佛教提供的”方便法门”也很多，而且因人而异的，每个人都能找到最合适自己的方法。所以后来刻印章的过程，对我来说就是一种打坐，是一种修行。每天早上7点开始到中午11点半，整个人的工作状态，从节奏到思维非常稳定。我曾经用录像拍我自己，有一时期我知道这幅画肯定好，因为节奏和速度都是一致的。我觉的非常有辛能通过佛教找到这样一种方式来表述艺术，佛教中说你读经书，会遇到不可想象的好处，这或许就是我的好处。我觉得当代人都应该读一下《金刚经》。
青年时讯：你曾在文章里说，自己记录的是“现在进行时”，我们看到的是“过去时”，作品是“将来时”，这应该怎么理解？
王皆:我做这组作品的时候，记录的是当时正在发生的现实，而你们看到的作品已经是过去的事了，但真正要理解这个东西的话，估计还要过一段时间以后。就一件作品而言，当下很难把它用文本呈现的很清楚，过一段时间我们再去看这个作品才更有意义。比如《毛主席去安源》它真正呈现意义，事实上经历一个时代的变革。
青年时讯：你最近还有什么出纳工作计划吗？
王皆：最近我在做一个行为表演，有一个道光年间的青花瓷缸，我来玩这个缸，让它发出不同的声音，先你在拿这个东西到各地去做现场，在798、左右艺术区都做过，明年还有计划去香港、法国。
青年时讯：您希望通过这个表演传达什么呢？
王皆：佛教里有一个非常有意思的词叫“直觉”，现在的人不太考虑自己的直觉。当一个人真正关心它的直觉的时候，也就是在关心他的思维和行动能不能统一。这是佛教非常难的哲学问题，就是“你是你吗？如果你不是你，你是谁？”，我们的精神与我们的肉体，是否能合在一起，我们能不能感知它。热瑜伽便是通过这个线索来连自己的肢体，把本来很僵硬的肢体练的很柔软，真的每个人都可以做的到，用同样的方法，你可以控制自己的行动。越南有个很了不起的禅师，叫一行禅师，他的修行方法非常简单，他会问他的信徒”你们会睡觉吗？你们会接电话吗？如果你们之前没有考虑，那么今天跟我学习”,他从接电话这件极为简单的事上修炼直接。
青年时讯：您所做的擦缸这一行为艺术，是否也是在修炼直觉？或者向人们传递这样一种信息，要关注自己的直觉。
王皆：我只希望让观看的人能突然意识到”咦，这是什么声音？”从开始只是好奇这个人在做什么，到把擦缸的人忘了，那个声音穿透力非常强，太有剥夺性了，听的时候你的所有直觉都回来了。
Wang Jie: Start From the Diamond Sutra
WANG Jie’s artistic hands are as strong and ordinary as farmers’
The spacious HIHEY Art Center is very tall. Portraits created by Wang Jie are
hanging on the wall, like flags. Those portraits are made up of the Diamond Sutra.
“It’s not easy to find an appropriate place.”, Wang Jie said, “It’s like you cannot find
a delivery room when you are going to deliver a baby.”
There are four groups of works: international dignitaries in “the era of Obama”,
web celebrities in 2012, powerful businessmen and prominent leaders in China’s
modern history. Mr. WANG said that he had to print those people because he could
not help thinking of them. He said that we had to pay attention to those images as
they followed us and media attention could create illusory meaning.
Nowadays, China has changed a lot compared with China in the year of 1989,
when Wang Jie was an undergraduate. The artistic sector was transforming at that
time: creation went back to individual expression instead of group expression and
young people was crazy about rock and roll. Be it rich or poor, you could become
friends as long as you shared same interests. “Experimental” is the perfect word to
conclude and describe that period. Unlike today, you have no idea how to start
because everything is already done.
<Start From the Diamond Sutra> is a book being written by WANG Jie. You
can hardly believe that Wang Jie had no belief before he created artistic works
employing the Diamond Sutra. But he said so. The Diamond Sutra provided WANG
Jie with an opportunity to explore his inner world and pay attention to his intuition.
Starting from the Diamond Sutra, Wang found his initial condition.
YOUTH EXPRESS: How would you like to define your works?
WANG Jie: It records individuals in an unique way. First, I craved the Diamond
Sutra on Qingtian stones. Those stones were exhibited as installation art. After that,
I used the Diamond Sutra to paint. I demonstrate everything I see in this media era:
I can always see different types of political figures and leaders on TV or in the
newspaper. I could not help thinking of them, so I recorded them. They were all
well-known public people to our Chinese. They were the same people who caught
my eye on public platform that year. I recorded them because I want to express my
feeling about the era. What I want to say is that I don’t have a standpoint.
YOUTH EXPRESS: Why did you choose to use the Diamond Sutra to
record those people?
WANG Jie: The Diamond Sutra has 5160 Chinese characters in total and it is
also a very amazing Buddhist text. It’s very hard to understand. It is about “Layers of
Tranquility”, meaning that whether the world and everything we see is real or not. Will
we let it go if something is unreal? This is the message my works convey. We see
those political figures, but what their meanings are doesn’t matter to me. I just printed
them.
YOUTH EXPRESS: As we all know, you use seals to paint, but how
did you achieve painting colors of different shades?
WANG Jie: I had worked on this method for a whole year before I created this
personal technology. You have to control shades yourself during printing. This requires
high quality inkpads with strong adhesive force. I used to paint in oils. When I worked
on those works, I wondered is it possible to paint by seal? Later on,I studied this
method. It took me a year to master this method.
YOUTH EXPRESS: We notice that the political figures are clear while
those economic ones are vague. Did you paint like that on purpose?
WANG Jie: A lot of people came and asked me what the relationship was
between those paintings and the Diamond Sutra. I printed those economic figures
vaguely because I wanted to cut down their relationship with the Diamond Sutra.
But the political ones are so clear that you can read the scriptures on them. That is
because I have my own expectation—I hope those political figures can make
greater contribution to this world.
YOUTH EXPRESS: It is said that you have a piece of the Diamond Sutra transcribed by Emperor Kangxi (from 1662 to 1722). Did you choose
the font of this copy?
WANG Jie: No, I didn’t. We have a large Chinese font library, from Oracle
bone script to the totally mature Hanzhuan (Xiaozhuan in Han Dynasty) and all of
these fonts are included in my work. It is very interesting to study Chinese characters.
Let’s take the Chinese character “ren” as an example, the original image is
lowering the head slightly, showing a humble and awed attitude.
YOUTH EXPRESS: How long does it take you to finish a piece of work?
WANG Jie: “The era of Obama” took me 22 months. Each piece of work cost
about more than 2000 seals. Different piece of work cost different span of time.
Normally, if nothing disturbed me for a long time, I could print a piece of work within
about a month. It was difficult to print Gaddafi. From starter, I was not sure whether I
should print his smile. When I finished printing, the portrait didn’t resemble him. And
I was considering reprinting him. However, after a second thought, I realized that
maybe that was my impression on him.
YOUTH EXPRESS: Let us talk about foreign exhibitions. What do foreign audience think of those political figures and hot people ?
WANG Jie: Many foreign artists asked me why would I choose Gaddafi or Kim
Jong Il. Those people are evil leaders to them. I told them, “ That is your personal
judgment. As for me, there is no difference between justice and evil in terms of
politics.” Foreign audiences are very interesting. Unlike Chinese people, foreign
people actively participate in social events. They have strong civic awareness,
especially people in western countries. When they judge public people, foreign
people will put their social standpoint into consideration.
YOUTH EXPRESS: Instead of making comment on the era, you prefer to record it in your view.
WANG Jie: Yes, that’s true. I would like to talk about the essence—expression.
Expression means a lot. What your paintings represent is what you express. There
exists aesthetic significance while you are expressing something. This aesthetic
significance is in line with the cultural trends of that era. In the western classic age,
many painters drew portrait, like Rococo, which represents the characteristics of
times of Renaissance. Art of Scars, emerged in 1980s in China, demonstrates the
expectation of young people in that period when China’s culture revived. What I
created demonstrates the situation when our society enters into the era of media:
individuals are overwhelmed by images and sound. What can we do in an era like
this? I choose to record. That is why I printed all those well-known things in this era.
YOUTH EXPRESS: From craving the Diamond Sutra to creating
paintings based on it，your works show diverse features. You must have
different feelings during different creating periods.
WANG Jie: That is right. Craving seals is quite a tiring job. And I did that job for
two years. I have never done that before. The idea—crave seals—just came into my
mind. For such a long time, I was upset because of having no idea about how to
express things. That’s why I started to read the Diamond Sutra. That was an amazing
period with all kinds of thoughts booming. Many people study Zen and I also know a
little bit about it. The Diamond Sutra is a classic work of Zen. Before the work was
introduced into China, we Chinese people read the Lankavatara Sutra instead of
the Diamond Sutra. The Lankavatara Sutra is thick while the Diamond Sutra is thin.
In the beginning, it was difficult for me to understand the Diamond Sutra. I searched
and read many documents，finding out that Buddhism is actually a system of
knowledge, covering “ knowledge ”and “ action ”. “Knowledge” means studying the
classic Buddhist works while “action” refers to practicing the methods passed on by
those works. Buddhism can bring people about hope. No matter how difficult your
situation is or no matter how bad your environment is, you will acquire inner peace
and have belief when you do some practice according to Buddhist theories.
YOUTH EXPRESS: Did you have any belief?
WANG Jie: No. In my opinion, burning incense and worshiping the gods is far
away from the essence of Buddhism. Buddhism is all about three words—
“commandment, calmness, wisdom”. First of all, you must control yourself, then you
can calm down and think. This kind of thinking is very reasonable. I didn’t realize that
until I read the Diamond Sutra. Buddhism provides many “useful means” for different
people. Therefore, everyone can find an appropriate one. As for me, the process of
craving seals was a kind of sitting in meditation. From 7 a.m. to 11 a. m., my working
mind and pace was very stable. I once recorded myself by camera. At a period, I
knew that my painting must be a good one, for my working pace and speed was
consistent. I am so lucky that I can express art in a Buddhist way. According to
Buddhism, you can receive unimaginable benefits by reading Buddhist works, and
this might be my rewarding. I believe that everyone should read the Diamond Sutra.
YOUTH EXPRESS: You wrote that what you record is “present
progressive”, what we see is “past tense” and the works are “future tense”.
What does that mean?
WANG Jie: When I created this group of works, I was recording what was
happening in life. However, when you see my works, it has already become the past,
and it will take you some time to understand what messages those works convey. It is
difficult to explain a piece of work clearly in written form at present. The works will be
of more meaning when we look back on them later. Take the oil painting—Chairman
Mao Went to Anyuan as an example, we eventually understand its meaning after the
transformation of a period.
YOUTH EXPRESS: Do you have any going out plan recently?
WANG Jie: Recently, I am working on performance. I am studying a blue and
white porcelain jar, which was produced in the time of Daoguang reign (1821-1850).
I make different sounds from it. I exhibited this jar in many places, like 798, About Art
District, and I am planning to exhibit it in Hong Kong and France next year.
YOUTH EXPRESS: What do you want to express by the exhibition?
WANG Jie: There is a very interesting term in Buddhism—intuition. Nowadays,
people care little about their intuition. When people truly pay attention to their intuition,
they will care about whether their thoughts and actions can achieve unification. This
is a very difficult philosophical problem in Buddhism, which is “Are you ‘YOU’”? If you
were not you, who are you?” Whether our soul and body can achieve unification? Can
we feel it? Hot yoga connects different parts of the body using this clue, softening the
inflexible limbs. Everyone can make it happen. That’s true. You can control your own
action in the same way. Thích Nhất Hạnh, an amazing Vietnamese Zen master,
develops a very simple way to practice. He will ask his believers, “Can you sleep?
Can you answer the phone? If you never think of these before, it’s high time you
learned from me.” He practices intuition directly through this simple activity—answer
the phone.
YOUTH EXPRESS: You talked about the performance art of wiping a jar.
Are you practicing intuition by doing this? Or are you delivering the
message of paying attention to your own intuition to people?
WANG Jie: I only hope that the audience can notice the sound and wonder
“What is that sound?” They are curious about what the person is doing in the first
place, but they forget the person at last. The sound, with a force of deprivation, has a
strong penetrating power. When you hear the sound, you can get all your intuition
back.
杂志《青年时讯》 2013年6月
编辑：夏凯陆
Magazine <YOUTH EXPRESS> interview， June 2013
Editor： XIA Kailu
翻译：BYICAA翻译之家
TRANSMAX-陈琪
Translation: Translators of BYICAA
TRANSMAX --Qi CHEN
